Why I think atheism is a waste...

Doesn't need to be, but often is, because the more you learn, the less necessity there is to imagine a god to explain things. Such an understanding pushes god back into the gaps in our understanding, and the more we learn, the less we need magic. But yes what I love about Sagan is that he gets across the awe and wonder of a scientific worldview. It's really not something to fear, it does not diminish and reduce the majesty and beauty of existence, quite the opposite, it opens it up. A world seen through religion is limiting, when you begin to understand what's really there and how it works that's when your mind truly starts to get a sense of how magnificent existence is

 

Ah yeah, the God of the gaps. But I think there'll always be something ineffable about the universe, and that's where God can come in for those who want him to. The problem comes when folks try to place him as the answer to specific questions, like "How old is the earth?" If it's a question science can answer, then science probably will, and that's going to make those folks feel bad, and then we're fighting - which doesn't really work out well for either side.

 

You answer your own question here.

Why would someone who believes in no afterlife turn around and believe in an afterlife?

And what "bonus" would an atheist get after his death if he just randomly chose a religion with a afterlife twist to it?

Wouldn't he still go to a sentence of punishment for stating that he didn't believe in an afterlife?

Your question was redundant.

 

This only gives one the impression that you consider atheists much more intelligent that anyone who belives in god. What would possibly give you that right? It is not what you say but the manner in which you say it that upsets me, with such an air of righteousness. Of course since the bible was written science has much advanced. From what you said before I again got the impression that you were not talking about the view of the world compared to now, or creation, or whether the was is round or not, but that then it was ok to believe in God as they were not as advanced as now.

 

That would be an innaccurate impression to get from those words. An interesting subject but not one I've raised here. I believe there is a correlation between high IQ and atheism but this is a complex issue, there are of course many stupid atheists just as there are clever religionists...

No I wasn't saying that either, but again you raise an interesting topic. Firstly I think it's still "ok" to believe in god, it is an almost inescapable human instinct to hold these kinds of beliefs, so to rail against the existence of the belief is somewhat futile. On the other hand, it probably wasn't ok to not believe in god until quite recently. I think we have less and less reason to invoke such supernatural belief systems to explain the world if we engage our critical faculties, which of course few people do.

 

That is actually quite offensive, to believe that 'you' are far more intelligent that 'us' just because you do not belive in there being something bigger in the world.

Or in other words, if we stop being so stupid and start thinking about how a god is stupid?

I can understand that people all feel different about religion, but I would never say that I am better in anyway than someone who didn't have faith, which is what you are implying here.

 

There have been some studies that show a possible correlation between atheism and high IQ; they're controversial at best, and I'd be inclined to call bullshit.

Other studies have shown that more educated people (as distinct from higher-IQ people) are less inclined to believe that the Bible is literally true, but maybe more inclined to attend church. That's kinda interesting.

A quick and pretty fair summary of these studies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence

(Note: That Paek study looks like complete BS to me.)

 

I am well educated, as are my family. From what I have seen people vary in intelligence, regardless of religion.

 

There have been quite a few studies which have demonstrated this link. Do you think it is "offensive" to believe something which has been demonstrated empirically? Also it's not "far more intelligent", we are talking statistically significant differences of perhaps a few IQ points.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence

Of course correlation does not imply causation, and it would be a mistake to assume that the correlation necessarily implies that people are less religious because they are more intelligent. Other factors may well be at play; people with higher IQs tend to have better jobs, be in a higher socioeconomic class, have had a certain kind of upbringing etc, all of which may feed into their tendency to be less religious.

Another mistaken inference. I too would never suggest I am better than someone because of what they believe.

 

Ha! Beat you to that link, homeboy.

 

Yes of course, you clearly don't mean what you imply!

 

I sometimes mean what I imply but I have no say over what people infer

How metaphysical:willy_nilly:

 

I infer what you imply. It is clear that you have utter disregard for Christians and will probably never have faith unless Jesus comes down and hits you around the head with the bible. What I don't understand is why you seem so nagry toward them.

 

I'd like you to show me where I've implied all the things of which I'm accused.

Some of my best friends are christians, I most certainly do not have utter disregard for them and am not angry towards them, but I don't agree with the doctrine. Personally I don't think I would ever have any kind of faith, defined as belief in the absence of, or contrary to, evidence. Jesus coming down and hitting me with a bible would be pretty good evidence for his existence, as long as he could repeat it under laboratory conditions...

 

Perhaps I should have said Christianty rather than Christians, although I imagine you feel the same towards other religions too. You seem like an intelligent man you must be able to separate the person from the faith even though they can be extremely intertwined otherwise it would be like saying all christians or muslims only start or support war because it has happened in history.

 

I'm pretty sure most religions are pretty clear on this one. Believing in a god just because you're afraid of the consequences of not believing in one = bad. If you believe in Heaven, very often you're expected to believe in Hell, so presumably that's a risk, but yeah, most of the religions that have a concept of Hell believe that attrition is bad.

 

I don't think the point is to attack Christians or religious as individuals. Not everyone that smokes cigarettes dies from cancer. So does that make cigarettes alright? Are the deadly facts nullified and forgotten because it doesn't apply to everyone?

People die from cigarettes and people die from religion. Please don't belittle the death of millions to make a weak and evasive argument.

I think only the Devil could torture a man, promise him heaven and make him believe it at the same time! There is no God that demands worship, only Devils. Religion IS surrendering your soul to the Devil, the ultimate deception! I believe the religious are being cultivated as SOULdiers, pawns for an afterlife of war between devils.

Nah, but I'd give it better odds than the "loving omnipotent ONE".

Actually I just remembered this creepy, intensely real dream I had once where I was in this huge marble building with ivory columns and there was a choir singing a bone chilling song like from the movie Omen. Everything was bright, clean and immaculate and this man in a suit was looking at me from behind a marble desk with a huge white tooth smile like a game show host. I looked into the blackest eyes and saw infinity as he lifted me off my feet with his mind I thought to myself "He's the Devil". I jumped out of my sleep in a cold sweat.

I don't know if I had a point to my story, other than the devil can be a sharp dressed man in a huge cathedral.

 

Always something to remember. Thanks for sharing

 

You would be advocating Pascal's Wager here.
The harm would be in living a lie. Every religion is founded on faith. Faith precludes fact. It is not a fact there is an afterlife, it is but a hope there is.
And when one studies the religions of the world and how they view that stated hope, it's not exactly a guaranteed paradise. Every religion invests real life travails as a means to achieve the after life they hope for. But that after life can be an exclusive paradise reserved only for those who's name appears in a book, or it can entail a void removed from the sight of the god they worshiped all their living life. Or it can entail eternal suffering in a place created for them by the god of their faith. Theists live their life hoping they'll be better people when they're dead.

Atheists simply recognize all that as man made sadistic fallacy and live this life as responsible conscious individuals, who realize they don't need to believe in fiction in order to be better people. And when they die they understand there's no way to know what's next,because that is the one fact that makes us all equal. Hoping something happens after life by no means guarantees it.

 

Eh this is getting a bit to complicated to me (at least some of it). I'll just leave it at that.

Heres a new question for everyone.

What if I just lived? Dont be a dick or anything. But not really focus on religion. Would that be atheism? What if you dont actually declare that?