Why is socialism a bad thing?

The difference is tha Swedes have more disposable after tax income.

How about we compare/contrast the differences between a Capitalist and Free Market Economy. Look closely and you'll see the difference between the two.

 

You guys Sweden is not real Socialism it is a “Social Democratic Party’ it is a label and a workers origination not a real socialism society.

Sweden is among the leading economies of the world. Once a major European military power, the Nordic country has not waged any wars for more than 180 years. Instead, while enjoying the fruits of peace and neutrality, it has achieved impressive economic and social results under a unique mixed system of high-technology capitalism and extensive social-welfare benefits.
http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/economies/Europe/Sweden-OVERVIEW-OF-ECONOMY.html

In a socialist society wealth/wages is distributed equally, that means a tec worker makes the same a schoolteacher.

Here is a chart of a tec worker wages in Sweden can you see the difference in wages?

Failing means not living up to the intended purpose, which was to make all citizens equal and free and all that other Marxist socialist rhetoric. The political structure just allows for a very powerful ruling class that abuses it power.

Then there is the whole work environment everyone gets paid the same low wage so most people pretend to work and build junk and make underground markets for quality goods.

Also to not “fail” the majority of the citizen must be satisfied with the things are going.

 

Sweden is also a direct democracy

 

Why? Well because I don't trust myself to think up a viable economic system off the top of my head. That's not to say I am stuck in the ideas of the past. Like the stuff you said about Marx and his background. I can't refute what you said, but it still doesn't affect the legitimacy of the idea. The science behind rockets was designed by the Germans, but that didn't mean we tossed out the technology. Who designed the Manifesto and for what reason doesn't matter, because we can take the ideas we like and toss out the rest.

Here's where we disagree. I see socialism as the lesser of the evils.

 

im just curious.... in socialism how does there end up being an extremely elite wealthy group of people? ---Would there not be a way to fix this?

 

Polecat,

Socialism may seem like the lesser of two evils. It was designed to appear that way. Like I said before, the money system in and of itself is an inhumane system. Capitalism is an inhumane system. Socialism, however, needs to be seen for what it is. It's a tool of power and wealth consolidation. They dress it up all nice so people will go along with it, without any idea of the direction it serves to lead them in. Fabian socialism (ie. incremental socialism), which is prevalent across the West and in so-called "socialist democracies," is a means to an end. Such a system is designed to eventually lead the people into bondage by gradually increasing the power the state has over the people (while posing as their benevolent benefactors). It doesn't matter how great and properous these countries appear at their peak. Nothing is as it appears. America once had the semblance of being a free and properous nation, but that has been eroded over time, bringing us to where we're at now due to the very same reasons I outlined above.

Socialism sounds good when you don't realize that the government always creates the problems and the artificial scarcity to justify such socialism and government intervention (which in turn results in the gradual loss of individual freedoms) to begin with. When people are out of work and can no longer feed their families, they turn to the state -- their very abusers -- for assistance, not realizing that many economic downturns that create such dependence are artificially created to actually get more people under the full control of the system through various government programs that pretend to "help" them.

Most people don't understand how the banking system works, so they are more likely to support whatever phony "alternatives" are put out there for them to bite at. The fact is that they always create the crisis to offer the solution. People are less likely to accept socialism unless they can be convinced that capitalism (which is non-existent today in its true and original form) is the problem. The goal of the elites has been to corrupt capitalism, thus demonizing it. What most people believe to be capitalism these days is really state capitalism or cartel capitalsm, which is in and of itself is socialism aimed to benefit the wealthy at the top. So by highlighting the current state of affairs and saying it's because of "capitalism," this causes people to call for even more state control and more of the same policies that got us to where we are now. This only benefits the super-elite at the top who created these problems in the first place.

 

I won't speak for Rat but the way I interpret what he is saying is this:

There is an unnecessary split between an original ideology that could actually help bring us towards freedom. Like how a person can focus entirely on logic and forget intuition, or focus entirely on intuition and forget about logic. A yin without it's yang would be incomplete and so would its function.

It's like the differences between liberalism and conservatism. Liberalism sees that the individual as the most important aspect. Conservatism sees that the group is more important than individualism. Why separate the two? Knowing more about yourself is important, but without focus on the group, things can get a bit messy with all of the competitiveness. Working along with the group is very important, but not at the expense of self-realization and important needs. Why not recombine the two? Focus on intrapersonal knowledge while at the same time focus on society rather than individual competitiveness?

Liberalism - Freedom through the individual, but that is not realized because it is missing the other half. The goal cannot be reached. Same thing can be said for conservatism.

Ultimately, I think Rat is saying that when the two are split, you are left with something that is used as a function and well-being of a few rather than the function and well-being of all.

 

Because over time the wealth is siphoned from the people and transfered to the state -- which is controlled by the banking and corporate elite -- to build up an infrastructure for controlling and managing the people, eventually leading to standing armies and military takeover.

 

i will fight against the dying of the light, i dont believe in politics, i dont think they exist, but if youre so naive and immature as to think that socialism is great, then youre young and never lived in a socialist country, show me that shangrilah in life where people get along and there is no war, and stupid answers like 'were all going to get along sooner or later and ' oh socialism gets me all wet and its so righteous' is all a load of bull--mcdonalds double cheesburgers, whatever, democratic captitalism sucks but socialism isi ever worse......forever worse. bob marley said it best, "untill that day, word citizenship and a rule of everlasting morality, ive go to say war"
and ive got to say war
you can bullshit all day about politics, and you can improve yourself, and shake the haters off, but to truly be yourself, you go to let the human race go, make yourself good youre not doing anything that hasnt been done before, unless youre taking care of yourself, if you really understand yourself and youre beyond policits bullshit and all that, then who cares about socialism, theres no such thing, i dont even think it exists, bunch of young fucks bitching about a bunch of old fucks, that all i see, untill you recognize that trying to be different takes as much time and is just as difficult as trying to be the same youll never realize, its not about countries or laws, ultimately thats just dumb monkeys doing something to get paid because theyre afraid if they didnt do anything they owuldnt get paid, i think we need cops otherwise it would be anarchy, but even the cops are or they are supposed to be, looking after peoples best interests, lemme tie this rant up, in socialist countries you can get very few kinds of beer, becaus shits state sponsored, in america, competition breeds variety, variety is the spice of life, get it or not, socialism sucks, capitalism rocks, ill beat any of you in any debate.........im a liberal taoist but i love america.........

 

Breathe, man! Breathe! And puncuate. That was a lovely run on sentence with lots of commas but it took 10 minutes to translate.

Name calling will not make you many friends. I live a minimal Socialist lifestyle deep within an oppressive Capitalist Democracy that is (by my standard) morally bankrupt and (by any standard) financially failing. I thrive and I am happy. It works for me. As a Taoist, you should know that we all must choose our own paths. So it's unnecessary to debate the merits of your beliefs over mine. Save that for the Religion Forum.

You're absolutely correct on one thing. Humankind has existed on this earth for 50,000 years. We've gotten taller, smarter, and increased in number, but we haven't learned to live together in peace by now and probably won't anytime soon. So for the present, learn to live in peace apart without telling each other what to do.

Peace. Signed,
An "Old Fuck"

 

You're the best! Why is it we focus on systems and governments? So we don't have be personally responsible? You lay out the truth and wonks continue to argue about which system is better, never focussing on their role in what's gone wrong. Hope you are warm and well fed this holiday season and sharing it with friends and family.

 

you are right, im sorry.

 

Don't be sorry. Be well, be happy, be your OWN change.

 

Hello? The world practically IS a communist society, although it's leaders are royalty.

Survival is a bitch. The only thing that levels all playing fields is constant looting and pillaging. I suggest looting and pillaging our leaders homes and property.

Make your own way in this life and surround yourself with those who you can live with.

 

communism is merely socialism in a hurry

Now reverse that.

 

socialism will not work until people stop desiring wealth and power

when that happens, we will not need socialism, we will just have it

 

All government is allowing someone besides yourself to decide what’s good for you.
If that sounds good to you, then just pick one, ‘cause they all turn out to be about the same in the long run.

 

Hell my 7 year old kid can see why socialism is a moronic idea that allows the stupid and the lazy to be carried on the backs of real men and women with work ethic and ambition.

People who want socialism and communism in this country should be strung up in the nearest tree like the coward bitches they are. Thats just a little fantasy of mine though.


Native American Pride

 

Native American Tribal Councils are in a sense socialistic. Are you sure you don't live in Wassila?

 

No brother, Native America Oklahoma.


Native American Pride