Why people need God and Government

I like facts. Don't you?

 

Facts are subjective.

I prefer to know something to be true using my intuition, and by the vibrations of my soul.

 

So, you'd let Jesus fuck you?

 

How vulgar...

I don't see what that has to do With anything.

But to answer your question, I don't think Jesus CHRIST would be "fucking" anyone.

 

Intuition and ‘vibrations’ in the soul.

For some the Enlightenment happened to other people.

I mean intuition “instinctive knowing (without the use of rational processes)” - is just a manifestation of a person’s bias and prejudice.

So slave owners instinctively ‘knew’ that black people were inferior to white people and Catholics instinctively ‘knew’ the Sun circled the Earth.

It is easy to use the intuition argument when you want something to be ‘true’ because it then doesn’t have to be backed up with anything logical or rational.

Some do this out of ignorance they don’t know any better (and can’t be bothered to find out) and some do it because they know consciously or not that their ideas are based in prejudice and would not stand up to any rational scrutiny.

As to ‘vibrations’ in the soul that’s just hilarious, my advise would be to go and see a doctor sounds like a bad case of gas or an irritated bladder…but seriously this is what any religious fanatic says to justify any brutal act, from burning witches to chopping the heads off prisoners on YouTube. Why did they feel it was right because they felt in their souls that it was right.

 

Nothing you can say will change the way I feel.

Sorry.

Go rain on someone elses parade.


My marching band wears ponchos.

 

Drew

So you are not here to debate, which means you can only be here to spam or troll?

 

I am not here to listen to you try to change my mind on something which comes from the very center of my being.

Perhaps you are the troll?

 

And just because I refuse to listen to you doesn't mean I am refusing to debate.

Just because someone offers you a gift doesn't mean you have to accept it.

You seem to have forgotten that these are free speech forums, and debate isn't required here.

I also refuse to be bullied by your circular logic.

 

Drew

To recap:

You have no logical or rational reasons for your views.

You are refusing to listen to any opposing viewpoint.

In other words you are not here to debate

It is clearly stated in the Politics forum guidelines –

Are you here to debate or troll?

 

I plead the fifth.


And it is only your opinion that I have no logical and rational reason for my views.


The reason I hold the ideas that I do are perfectly rational to me.

It really doesn't matter to me if you think they are rational as well.

What other people think of me, is none of my business.

And I would like you to prove to me how I am being a troll, since you seem so good at that.

 

I don't view Drew as a troll, only a misguided individual set on his individual mindset, much as Rat is viewed by some as a conspiratist. Many of his views are valid to him. Perhaps not valid to you (Balbus) or I but if the individual (Rat or Drew) actually subscribe to these interests, it's their individual privelege and right.

 

Thank you.

That's all I really expect...


Given the bad rap given to anyone who subscribes to conspiracy theories.


Again...

What other people think of me, is none of my business.

 

The problem is not that Drew has the views he holds - it is that he doesn’t want to debate them.

He can have what views he wants but he is coming to a place for debate and if he doesn’t want to debate them he must be coming here for other reasons than making a genuine contribution.

So I ask Drew again is he here to debate or to troll?

 

What are we supposed to be "debating" again?

You lost me.


And yes, I am avoiding your loaded question.

 

Why the people need God and the Government. Keep it on topic, please.

 

Ok let’s take a couple of things from the thread and get it back on track.

Some are arguing that “you don't need laws to live in a decent and upright society.”

I’ve argued that it doesn’t matter if people are mostly decent and upright a group of human will need some system to organise and make decisions.

So lets say people decide that they don’t want the children in there society to be abused sexually or physically. To make that decision clear they set up laws stating what they view as abuse.

The police are then instructed to investigate any reported abuse aided by support agencies.

*

So does a community have the right to decide that people shouldn’t be allowed to abuse children?

If they don’t should abuse just be allowed to continue?

If they do why shouldn’t they investigate suspected abuse and if discovered punish those that have done it?

Rat pointed to a story in the inside pages of the Times (on the business/law pages) on some claims made by a radio programme that have been denied.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article2317284.ece

However the very real and very tragic story of Baby P was the lead news on all UK media outlets for days and is still being commented on.

Here is an article from the Times also (the main section) -
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5705284.ece

And before that the Victoria Climbié case also made headline news.

Thing is abuse does take place but do some people think it would be better if children suffered abuse even died from it than to have laws and government agencies that work to alleviate the problem?

 

I'm not sure how this thread turned into talking about child abuse. But here goes. I KNOW several people who have lost their children due to some ridiculously bad judgments by professional creeps and cops - far worse than their parents. I don't have to read about some random person's troubles to know how that works. The protective services IS corrupt and it goes the same way as dealing with the police. People are afraid of them and so they don't dare to bring truth to light for fear of retribution. And it's getting worse all the time.

Do people actually NEED God and government? Well, I think if we HAVE to take this at face value, NO. But "God" is a matter of opinion, and I think that in order for people to have fairly good lives and be truly happy, they need to have an understanding of SOMETHING that exists, not necessarily a higher power, but something IN US that connects us to the natural world and each other. "Government" as it stands is nothing but trouble and nobody needs that. What people DO need - in large groups anyhow - is for the strongest of them to be HONORABLE, understanding, and compassionate leaders. We do not even need to call it government. It's just a natural setup for people living in groups. I believe at one point in time they might have been called more appropriately "elders".

 

Do people actually NEED God and government? Well, I think if we HAVE to take this at face value, NO. But "God" is a matter of opinion, and I think that in order for people to have fairly good lives and be truly happy, they need to have an understanding of SOMETHING that exists, not necessarily a higher power, but something IN US that connects us to the natural world and each other!

would you might be speaking of the spirit that moves within things?

 

Earthmother

The subject of child abuse came up because of Drew and Rat but I was trying to use it as a way of discussing the needs for law and governance.

But once again you don’t seem to have answered the questions and leave me unsure of what you mean.

We all know that abuse of children takes place but some people seem to be suggesting that the laws against child abuse and especially what it entails to back up those laws is far more dangerous and objectionable than the abuse.

And I asked

I’m still unsure from you reply what you think. You say you know of unjustified investigations and you thing the police and protective services are corrupt but does this mean you would close down all investigations, repeal all child abuse laws and let abuse carry on regardless?

Do you have an alternative approach that doesn’t involve laws and investigations?

And again doesn’t a community have the right to decide that people in it shouldn’t be allowed to abuse children?