Why the Christian/Judeo/Islamic God?

So to you, God is not the creator of the universe with Tri-omni powers? Define Higher conciousness if you can, please.

 

No offense, but could you please start another thread, your questions are good questions, just not relevant to the OP, nor do I doubt will you get the same two answers from various christians.

Thanks :cheers2:

 

Everything you've stated here is more of an attempt to understand god mentally, and it really can't be done. I'll give you an example of what I mean though. We can all connect to this in one way or another.

Do you ever notice something really beautiful? It's that moment of Ahhh... that instant of upliftment (without thought) before the mind comes in and says "wow that's beautiful".

Have you ever been in an emergency situation (maybe a split second before an accident) when the mind stops and you're fully & deeply present?

These are two examples of a state that's beyond thought but which is a deeper realm of who we are. Like I said before, "God" is an overused dead term, and I don't want to use it. What I'm referring to is Essence, our inner Being, which is the core of Life itself.

Analyzing anything breaks it into little fragments, it separates the whole. Essence can't be grasped in this way because it is a wholistic awareness that is beyond thought, beyond analysis.

For those that have trouble connecting to this energy, start by focusing on your breath and become aware of any mental noise that comes up and tries to be "important". The mind always thinks that everything it comes up with is VERY IMPORTANT. No, it's not important at all. There is something deeper, something more vital, more real, something that is the Essential You.

 

Sure, why not!

 

Do you have any proof that could state otherwise?
What if I claimed all rocks were the kidney stones of giants?

Apparently it works. Do you know the age of the universe from your own observation? Because the estimates are made by humans, are they not subject to human flaw anyway?
What, could God have not made it that way? Prove he couldn't have.

Maybe it does? Prove a mind/consciousness cannot exist without physical representative. Without physical being, a mind cannot communicate with minds that physically exist, yes, but that does not void it from existence

The brain translates surroundings to the consciousness so it has a sense of where it is. You destroy parts of the translator which exists in the physical realm. All that body, life and interactions are? They serve to show the environment to the consciousness; the environment is constituted of not only the world itself, but it's current forms, and the consciousnesses of others (who are in all reality not separate at all). You might disregard this, you're have to disregard a lot of ideas to hold to your own.

He doesn't mean the tangible understanding of God that you think he does,

Of course lightening comes from the discharge of static electricity in the environment, but do you think we're done finding out about how lightning works? Science is a place holder for true knowledge just as religion once was, wait for the time-line to fill out

 

I would argue that there is no moment before the mind comes in. Even when you think there is no thought, there is thought unless your brain is damaged. Any "moment of Ahhh" correlates with thought simultaniously. Visual response is directly linked to the brain.

No, I haven't. I've never experienced a time in my life where I experienced the mind stopping. Even in sleep the mind is continually functioning, even if we can't remember it. A comprehensive understanding of the brain would help you see this. Humans have a built in imagination. We can think of all kinds of crazy stuff, but it doesn't make it true no matter how poetic or profound it sounds.

Unless brain damaged, we are in constant thought, there are no times where thought isn't present, no matter how hard you try to "clear your mind" it is always working. Again, mind is nothing more than a product of brain function. Electrochemical reactions traveling along highways of neurons and synopis'.

This seems somewhat incoherant to me, but if I understand you correctly, I agree that without brain, mind is non-existant.

I suspect these are your beliefs, but they are unsupported claims that I can't agree with. Our bodies are nothing more than batteries for the brain. We intake food, that is converted into energy. This energy is fed to the brian which inturn creates thought. The energy is electricity. We can short circuit this electricity with an outside source of electricity and stop the body, and thus the brain from functioning. ONce this happens, "Us" is no longer there. Our energy disapates into the air in separate particles that go in all directions, never to be wholey reunited with "Us".

I should also mention that this line of thought is way beyond the scope of the OP, so if you wish to continue, please start another thread. Thanks

 

The op is infantile and childish at best. Its just an invitation to argue. And then the op even puts stipulations on how his arguments can and cannot be answered. How childish. Watchin this thread is like lookin at a bad accident. No one wants to look but for some reason human nature forces us to. I think some folks are just watchin so they can see just how silly and infantile the op'er can be. Put me on your ignor list itsdarts, you shurly wont enjoy my posts.

 

Funny how everyone is a critic. Opinions are like A**holes, everyone has one and you are certainly entitled to yours. What is more childish (in my opinion) is attacking the poster instead of the post. I made stipulations because its common to use the bible as evidence when in reality it isn't evidence of a god. One has to assume existence first and then use the bible as evidence this god exists, its circular reasoning that leads debates in the wrong direction. Is it really that difficult to explain why one chooses Christianity over the miriad of other god type religions? Again, this IS a debate forum, its made for differing viewpoints. My stipulations reduce the typical rhetorical arguments like "The bible says so" or "the bible says this, so it must be true" type of rebutals. It also proves a point, without the bible, there is nothing theists can do to show their god exists and this makes their choice of religion irrational or they just don't care and prefer to go with the flow of their current community.

Thanks for playing.:cheers2:

 

This shoulda been the title of the thread.

 

This is circular logic... if you haven't experienced it so it must not be possible, and so you continue to look for evidence to support your perception, thus leading to more experience of the same. There are quite a few people (more and more all the time), myself included, that would tell you otherwise and from their own experience. But for anyone to have a different experience they would first need to stop being so sure that they already know it all and open their minds to the possibility of something else. This isn't a belief or self delusion, because once you get a glimpse of a state of no-thought, it's undeniable and the world is experienced in a completely new way.

These claims aren't unsupported at all. Enlightened masters have spoken of it plenty, and more and more people in the world today are beginning to experience this.

There is more to us than our bodies. What I'm referring to of course is Spirit, and it is our current evolutionary challenge to go beyond the thinking mind and experience conscious connection to Being while still in the body.

Well if you wish to pose a question and then define the parameters of the answer in such a way that a true answer cannot be given because it lies outside those parameters, then your mind has done you a disservice and I would suggest you question its assumptions. Unless of course you don't really want to know the answer because you're sure you know it all already, and are just posing the question in order to prove your point, in which case you will surely attempt to "shut up" anyone who doesn't offer that which suits your purposes.

 

I'm not a Christian (though I am a theist) but I can't say that the Christian's choice of religion is irrational. I've never tried to be a Christian, so I don't know what they get out of it. If they get something unique and beneficial out of it that they can't find elsewhere, then it is a rational choice that they are entitled to whether they can prove their doctrines factual or not.

So I think, if you want to prove Christianity wrong, you have to compare the claims of Christianity with the claims of other religions and against reality. If someone says that God speaks to them, you have to consider this objectively and scientifically instead of being flippant and callous about it. Because those who would make this claim are so often subject to ridicule by non-scientists like yourself, they are not inclined to provide any further details of their experience. And thus you can neither duplicate or refute their experience. Hypothetically, if someone is being spoken to "by God" (i.e. something paranormal is happening to them as a result of their belief in God,) surely you can't expect them to stop believing as they do because you say there is no proof.

 

Everybody know's what God is, but who here knows WHO God is?

 

Well I knew, but I could not say - the Beatles

 

As I mentioned before, You're blanket stipulation that the Bible not be used does more than eliminate what you've called "the typical rhetorical arguments" and as you say the “circular reasoning" it also removes other more logical ways of using the Bible to prove that God exists and that way you don't have to get in trouble by mentioning them or having to defend against them.

Also I beg to differ, this IS NOT a "debate forum" this IS a free speech forum. Now, while I agree that using some of the rules for debate and logical reasoning can be useful in a discussion, remember this is just a forum for discussion and some will speak from their heart and should not be chastised for it. They should encouraged not dismissed, if you think they’re wrong, sure correct them but do so in a loving manner, after all this is also a “Hippy” forum, you know, peace and love.

Peace and Love and Sharing, Man, Sharing.
OWB

 

Haha, and it stays like that.

 

I don't claim to know it all, nor do I claim to know even a little bit.

I'll ask you 3 questions, how do you know you are without thought of any kind? Do you not remember any of your meditation period? If not, how do you know you meditated?

 

Na, I like the title I gave it.

 

I have no doubt there are SOME rational reasons for Christianity, I'm still waiting to hear from these christians what they are.

I've had one or two responses that I found to rational to some extent and they were honest responses. I agree with them that "it makes them feel good" for what ever reasons, and one even agreed that he only follows it because thats how he was raised. Thats an honest reponse, not necessarily a rational one in light of what we know about reality, but it "works" for them (what ever that means).

The majority of this thread has been nothing but an attack against my OP and how it was stipulated, as if I'm not allowed to make stipulations for a thread that *I* started. My final response to all the whiners is leave the thread if you don't like it. I've defended my reasons for the stipulations and any more whining is distracting and off topic and I will not respond, so there, eat THAT stipulation. I don't enter other threads and complain about the arguments because "I don't like the way its worded", I simply don't participate. Its pretty simple really.

 

First off, there is no logical way to use the bible to prove god exists. Its NOTHING but the words of men. Its a book describing what these men think god is. Secondly, my OP isn't about proving or disproving this god or any other. Its about logic and reasoning. If I wanted to discuss the bible or whats in it, I wouldn't have made the stipulation. If you don't like my OP and don't want to participate with these stipulation, GTFO of my thread, its that simple. Either play with the stipulations or leave.

I haven't chastised anyone. I merely made rules for the discussion that I ask to be followed or don't play. If something is off topic, I'm not required by any rules to continue an off topic discussion and I will say so, as I did with Mamacita.

Oh, and by the way, if you read the rules for this forum, it clearly states that quoting the bible is not allowed, so my stipulation of not using the bible is well within the rules.

"There are now NEW RULES for this forum as a result of it being abused by fundamentalist Christian recruiting agents for their own agenda.

NO PROSELITIZING! We don't want to hear why WE need to follow Jesus. You like him, fine, keep it to yourself. We are not sheep around here, get used to it!

NO WITNESSING! We don't want to hear about your personal experiences with Jesus. We don't need to know how he "saved" you. That's not what this forum is about.

NO BIBLE QUOTES! Sorry but we don't allow spam on this site. Quoting over and over from some ancient text, is SPAM! You want to advertise a book, take out a banner ad!

Anyone not following these rules will be banned."



And yes I do understand the context of these rules.

 

Havnt you put me on your ignore list yet? Who the fukk can even rememver all the stipulations you stated! If you wanna beat sombody up why do ya gotta tie'em up? The only reason I can think of is you figured youd getcher ass kicked if ya didnt. No one could answer your questions while tryin to remember exactly just how to word it. What they can say and what they cant. How do you expect an honest answer? Its like sayin-"Do your best dance, but hold these eggs between your but cheeks." Have you ever read the Bible? I'v read lotsa books but none left me with what the Holey Bible left me with. Heres a li'l somthin for ya.-- Back in the day my brother was a real baddass. I meen a BADDASS. Him and a couple other renigade bikers from a well known club liked raiding clubhouses for guns money and drugs. I only seen him get his ass kicked once and it was by a bunch of people. He was a BADDASS! Some oldheads mite know who Im talkin bout. Im talkin bout The Preacher from S Philly. He was pure evil. He robed houses churches clubhouses and his mama. He had a pentigram as big as a silver dollar tattoed on his forehead. Any one from Philly? If so ya mite have met or herd of him. He was hard to miss, with the pentigram on his forehead and all. Murder was NOT beyond him. He's dead now I can say what I like. If any of this sounds interesting than listen to THIS. He went to Cali many years ago and got busted for robin a sinagog. He also extorted the rabi's. They clamed, in the news paper that he robed much more than he did and he went back to the sinagog and told the rabi he was gonna tell the authorities who he was and exactly HOW MUCH he took. That got him busted. The rabis wouldnt be extorted. This got him 8 years. He was an incorigable at this point. We got our letters. He started changin. He didnt speac to no one in there but he taught himself to read. He did it by opening the Bible. He couldnt read but he pikt up a Bible and he said the words just came out at him. It changed his life. He got out and shared. I didnt know what to expect when I opened a Bible either. He showed me what he found out tho. It took a while until I understodd just whats in the Book but I got it. NOTHING could change my brother The Preacher from S Philly. Nothing but the Bible. He went on to live many more years with the Lord in his heart. Thats not to say he turned into an alter boy,he still kiked some powerfull ass. But it changed him, everyone could see it. It changed me too. The Bible is a book filled with hidden meanings. Some folks get it and some folks dont. Moses got it, the Pharo didnt. Theres nothing to explain how a murderin,extortin theif could go threw those changes I seen in my brother. Me too, The changes in me. YOU cant explane these things. I know. I was there. The Lord spoke to me. -The Lord spoke to me. This is why I believe in God. my Lord God Alla. My heavinly father Jehova. My sweet savior Jesus. I believe Him because He saved me and my brother from hell and now he holds us in his sweet embrace. I believe in God because of the changes I see that only He could make. In my life and in the life of others. I pray the Lord gives you a new heart itsdarts so that you can enjoy these changes He would make in your life. Its not even my nature to wish this for you. From my own nature I couldnt care less if you fukkt yourself in the ass with a baseball bat and kept makin stupid threads. But thats just me. God says I should prey for you so I do. May the Lord bless you itsdarts.