Wondering Why o go Vegan

thats a low call, knocking someones age-sign of a loser!!!

i dont live off the back of animals, live on a small amount of cash raise a kid pay bills and rent, a word springs to mind about that post

'pointless'

 

Actually if we take religion out of the picture, animals are here for our use. Animals eat other animals, human beings are a meat eating animal. In fact meat eating is probably what gave us are superior intelligence in evolution as carnivores as a general rule of thumb tend to be more intelligent then herbivorous since it takes complex planning and thinking to carry out a hunt.

Also while you don't need a two story house to be happy, it doesn't change the fact having a large home makes many people comfortable, i.e. happy. A large house provides security and that's one of the human beings psychological basic needs. Bills still cost money, it doesn't matter how much you cut down, especially up north and out west. We have two people in our house, both not home most of the day. Even in spring and autumn with no A/C or furnace on it's still $60-70 a month. Foreclosed homes often need a tremendous amount of work done to them, skills most people generally don't have and hiring contractors to do it near defeats the purpose in terms of financial loss.

Having kids is basic desire of the vast majority of people, let's not even get into birth control failing. I suppose your parents could've reduce their carbon footprint and lowered their needed expenses by just not having you.

It's not low, most 15 year olds have no concept of money or kids "if you have kids its your own fault". I'd like to the difference in what you consider a small amount of money vs what he considers a small amount of money, also between what you consider a small amount of money and what other people consider small.

 

Animals are not for our use. How bout we lock you in a pin that you can't turn around in and be fed pesticides and taken away from your natural environment and be denied your right to graze and mate. You wouldn't like it so much you would be depressed.
We skin animals while they're still alive that wouldn't be to fun being able to see all your muscles and bone.
Actually it is very low I actually have a concept of money I save, I might spend 3 bucks a week while taking in 20. I don't buy impulsively, I have control over myself I think before I buy. I have all my Christmas money left over from last year which is about 400. The only thing I really eat is rice and I just got a ten pound bag for about 5 bucks and I take vitamins regullaly which is less then 1 dollar a day.
There are houses that are brand new for 25,000 dollars which is cheap but you have to buy the land also and put a foundation. People living in this house electric, and oil is about 60 bucks in the winter in Canada.
We also screw up the chain of life by taking animals away that kill other animals and then those animals overpopulate because there is nothing stopping them from breeding.
You can prevent having kids by not having sex it doesn't take a brain surgeon to know that.

 

Oh and also check out this link http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/09/are-humans-carnivores-or-herbivores-2/ we are closer to a herbivores than a carnivores body.

 

ANIMALS are for our use. ALL ANIMALS ARE FOR THE USE OF OTHER ANIMALS. The human being is an animal, we eat animals, the only difference is unlike other animals we actually put the entire animal body to use.

Except this generally doesn't happen, animals are much easier to skin when dead.

This isn't a reflection of real life monetary issues. $3 will barely buy you one gallon of gas, one can of an energy drink, one bag of generic potato chips, ect. You live at home with your parents and are 15, you don't technically need to buy anything.

I have all my Christmas money left over from last year which is about 400. The only thing I really eat is rice and I just got a ten pound bag for about 5 bucks and I take vitamins regullaly which is less then 1 dollar a day.[/quote]

Again, I'm sure there's other food in your house and most people prefer a lifestyle of being able to eat more than rice everyday, including the people who live solely on rice aid in the south Pacific. $400 doesn't go very far when you have bills to pay. For example, the internet you're on right now, assuming it's either DSL or cable generally at the lowest speed costs at least $30 a month. Then you need either a land line or cell phone, that's going to another $40 a month. If you live alone you're electric bill is going to be at least $40-50. If you have city water you're going to have to pay that. If your water and heat is oil/gas fired, that has to be paid for. Most people have/need a car, the requires gas, insurance and maintenance. Don't forget about your rent/mortgage, also home insurance most people have. Also if you want to ever have any fun it's going to cost money, even simple things. Also don't forget about the taxes on everything you own. Do you see the point I'm getting at?

In some places this is true, in places like CT, no house will run you $25,000, even if you already own the land. A large trailer in a good town will run you $25,000.

Not going to argue against that, humans are definitely good at fucking up the cycle of life.

Hahaha, no one, anywhere, is going to not have sex if they have the ability to. It's literally by psychologists agreed upon as one of the basic human needs aside from water and food. Sex/masturbation are truly the most addictive drugs there are. Even our closest genetic relative, the bonobo, freely has sex and sex is used as a way to meditate disputes and conflicts.

 

Yes hence why we for millions of years have been omnivorous like most primates are. We may have came from the trees, but we along with most primates have evolved beyond that. Going back to the bonobo, meat is also traded for sex in their society. When referred to as hunter-gatherers, the gathering part generally provided most of the nourishment, as the men hunting were not guaranteed to actually come back with anything. Meat when available provided a great dietary infusion.

 

How long have you been a veggie for? Are you taking supplements? Multi-vitamins? I really hope you are so you have the habit and the nutrients. Its even harder for you, being at an age where you're body is in the craziest changing phase of you're entire life. You need your vitamins girl! lol
Also, how much background do you have with being vegetarian? do you, or does your mom cook you food?
It's just, my best friend was a veggie for a few years to get in the habit of not eating meat and not thinking about it. its been years for her since she ate meat now, but she turned vegan 2 years ago. She reads books, and takes vitamins, stays in shape, and experiences her vegan recipes! I'm not saying your too young to become Vegan, but it would definitely help if you did some of those things to gain a better knowledge of the title. It wouldn't be okay if you weren't healthy because of this.

Also, about the expense, its always in the Organic isle in a grocery store. Everything there is pretty pricey when it comes to normal everyday things. I don't even want to get into condiments. If I were you, I'd tell your momma before you change because if its comin out of her pocket its only fair!

 

you're a dude. im sorry. i didn't know. lol

 

Again, I'm sure there's other food in your house and most people prefer a lifestyle of being able to eat more than rice everyday, including the people who live solely on rice aid in the south Pacific. $400 doesn't go very far when you have bills to pay. For example, the internet you're on right now, assuming it's either DSL or cable generally at the lowest speed costs at least $30 a month. Then you need either a land line or cell phone, that's going to another $40 a month. If you live alone you're electric bill is going to be at least $40-50. If you have city water you're going to have to pay that. If your water and heat is oil/gas fired, that has to be paid for. Most people have/need a car, the requires gas, insurance and maintenance. Don't forget about your rent/mortgage, also home insurance most people have. Also if you want to ever have any fun it's going to cost money, even simple things. Also don't forget about the taxes on everything you own. Do you see the point I'm getting at?



In some places this is true, in places like CT, no house will run you $25,000, even if you already own the land. A large trailer in a good town will run you $25,000.

Not going to argue against that, humans are definitely good at fucking up the cycle of life.


Hahaha, no one, anywhere, is going to not have sex if they have the ability to. It's literally by psychologists agreed upon as one of the basic human needs aside from water and food. Sex/masturbation are truly the most addictive drugs there are. Even our closest genetic relative, the bonobo, freely has sex and sex is used as a way to meditate disputes and conflicts.[/QUOTE]

Okay when you said animals are for us i figured you meant that they were solely for us now i understand.
Actually it does happen more often then you think also sometimes they are boiled alive.
Well i also eat stuff that i can grow which saves a lot of money and most of the food i get is pretty cheap and there is also stuff to make your rice taste pretty decent just add a few vegtebles.
The thing about the phone is that you can use magic jack which uses your internet and if i need a cell phone i would get a prepaid so i pay when i use it. I only use my phone once or twice a week.
Also if i would get a job somewhere that would be pernament i would try to move as close as i could so i could ride my bike.
I don't need those and if i do i can make them plus energy drinks aren't that good for your body.
And also if your on birth control and use condom it would be very rare to get pregnant cause your condom would have to break and the birth control would have to fail you would have to be the most unlucky person for that to happen to you.
And i do see the point your trying to get out but even if you have a low paying job you can live very decent.

 

I became a vegetarian after i read eating animals by jonathan safaron and i didn't wan2 support the meat industry after that and then i converted to buddhism which say it is wrong to eat another living thing so it was a combination of the two. I became a vegetarian at the begining of the summer. Ya, I take multi viatamans called centrium. I cook my own food the only time my mother cooks is when she grills meats. I already told her , and plus i cut down on how much i get from her i use to ask for a lot of stuff; now i don't so i even out on that.

 

Yes that's what I was getting at, there's nothing wrong with the human being as an animal killing other animals to eat them, we evolved to do so, we've been doing it since before we were even homo sapiens. Now if it's ethical for a society that doesn't need to kill animals to eat a plentiful diet to continue doing so, that's another story.

Oh I know it does, it's cultural tradition in some places, as well as animal sacrifices in some places still.

The problem is of space. In the US, almost 60% of people live in urban areas of the surrounding suburbs, this number is substantially higher in Europe and east Asia. The physical ability to grow any food is generally pretty limited for a good deal of people.

Cell phones and energy drinks aside, it was just a metaphor for the fact even after you've ate all you need, paid all your bills, ect, living and going out and doing things takes spending money.

You'd be surprised, I know more than 1 person this has happened to. Even with birth control though, condoms and pills aren't cheap.

It's harder then it seems. A report came out last year listing Connecticut as the most expensive state to live in in terms of salary. To live on your own in an apartment, it takes generally a minimum of at least $22 an hour to get by. Keep in mind a lot of states if not for the Dem takeover of congress in 2006 would probably still have $5.15 as the min. wage.

Also, you should read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair, a famous book from 1905 that helped spur getting the safe food and drug act passed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle
It was famous in its graphic depictions of what was going on in the stockyards and meatpacking plants of Chicago at the turn of the century. Also going back to milk, I remember at one point the book they mention the milk at the local store having "this blue tint"

 

Wa bluska wica - I agree that it was silly to fight so much. And I'm very aware that you disagreed with me. But I was not making that stuff up. I have been studying holistic healing and eating n stuff. And almost ANY book you read will mention why dairy is bad for you and all that. Heck, you can google "why is dairy bad?" and I'm sure you'll get more than enough of what I previously said in the search results.
Whether you believe it or not is your choice, I wasn't trying to convince you.
And BELIEVE me, I love love love dairy products (I've never really liked meat), and if I could find any excuse to eat them, I most certainly would. So "making stuff up" is not something I would do. I guess you would need a personal credible group of scientists to prove a point though.
So let's just agree to disagree, eh?

As for the justification (this isn't aimed towards anyone in particular) of "we are meant to kill animals, it's the food chain."
No. I have absolutely no real problem with eating animals. The thing is, they are tortured.
I do have a problem with the treatment of the animals we eat. the only thing I can think of when I see a burger is the cow that was being fattened up in a feedlot living in it's own feces, being shipped somewhere, and then shot. I've seen it firsthand, and it makes me sick.

To thepeaceandtruthseeker - You are like a male version of me. Keep being awesome. You can live a decent life on a decent budget. And you are right, no one should have to sacrifice ethics and morals so they can have a flatscreen tv in their living room.

To everyone else - agree with it, or disagree with it, I don't care. I live a very healthy and fullfilling life exactly the way I live.

 

get it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=931Akr1kySE&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- All Are One (Including The Animals)

 

All i need to have fun is some friends over pitch in some money and go buy whatever or just chill and talk.
Just because someone says you need 22 bucks to live comfortably in an apartment doesn't mean that true, its just someones opinion. Its just based off of what they think is decent living.
Thanks for the suggestion I was trying to find something like that.

 

How are we meant to eat meat, just because we do doesn't mean that we are meant to eat meat.
Ya after watching videos about it it gives me images just going to meat section in the grocery store.
Thank You for agreeing with me. Just because we are Americans we don't have to live the American dream.

 

It's not that I think we are meant to eat meat. If you look at our teeth, and the way our digestive system is, our bodies are still in the early stages of converting to omnivores from herbivores. Thus we were originally herbivores and have in the last 4 or 5 thousand years really start to eat meat (for any body who's going to undoubtably argue. YES, I know that we've have eaten meat before then. But it wasn't something that happened regularly until a few thousand years ago)
What I meant was, animals are killed to be eaten by other animals. I have no problem with that. If I was standed out somewhere and I needed a source of food other than grass and bushes, I would certainly kill and eat and animal. It's just the way the system works; you take and you give.
The reason I am so against the meat/dairy industry is.. well several things: the animals are breed for absolutely nothing more than being fed and caged in filth their entire life. It's not healthy. The animals are exploited purely for their dead carcasses. The industry lies so that the consumers keep buying their crap. And last, I really just don't like killing or hurting something unless it's necessary, I even avoid bugs on the sidewalk if possible.

 

But this is nothing that can't be challenged by buying organic/free range products. And humans have in fact been eating meat for millions of years, but you're wrong in saying it's been a staple for only a couple of thousand years, it's in fact much, much less. For example, poultry has only become a staple in the past 100, the phrase "a chicken in every pot" when Herbert Hoover said it in 1929 seemed far fetched because chicken was actually pretty expensive in 1929, now it's the most common form of meat in the world. In fact there are over 2 chickens for every human on earth.

*edit*
What I'm trying to say is, for most humans, meat has never been as large a part of their diet as it is today compared to any other point in recorded history.

 

Doesn't matter whether it's organic or not. Organic is still kind of a loose term in the industry anyway. Cows still are breed to walk around and get fat, and as soon as they are fat enough to sell, they are slaughtered, it doesn't matter that they are on a farm. same thing with chickens, where do you think all the males go? They're killed. And they lock the chickens up in these barn things and make them lay eggs all day.
They don't have to die. That's why I don't support it, at all.
I did say that humans have been eating meat, but it has not been millions, more like.. about 40,000, give or take 20,000. Most likely due to the ice age and decrease in vegetation. And eating meat was the only way to live. Perhaps we just became intelligent enough to realize that it was something we could do.

*edit*
I agree with your edit statement. What I'm trying to say is.. humans did eat meat occasionally for the last 40,000 years maybe. Then the last 3 thousand or so, they ate more of it, like they'd raise pigs and chickens and stuff.
And the last 2 or 3 hundred, it's almost a weekly thing.
Now, I know many people who don't go a meal without meat, literally.

 

truthandpeace seeker,

there are inexpensive places to live in the u$, still

you might not like them much, though

i live in one of them, eastern montana

it's flat, windy, and the winters can kill you

there are very few jobs, mostly agricultural, oil and coal

but my rent, for a small old house with a basement, is $200/month

i have seen livable houses in the area sell for as little as $9,000

vegetable and [especially] fruit selection is weak

and damn near everyone hunts

there are other cheap areas still; wikipedia can be helpful in finding them [look for poverty statistics]