World War III?

That is right Sera, some will just make up their own 'facts'. which they stick to in the face of all logical evidence to the contrary.

Limbaugh used to do this on air with millions listening, just make up a 'fact' out of thin air. Some were very wrong, and about Native Americans. He really comes across as a racist to me. Millions of listeners will then quote his 'facts', to support their own biases, when they are his own fictions, off the top of his head.
It is sick.

 

http://www.fact-index.com/g/gu/gulf_war.html

Other than terrorists that are, for the most part, fundamental militant Muslim's angered by American foreign policies; who exactly are our "enemies"?

Did you forget that we funded the Iran/Iraq war (both sides! we were Iraq's ally, and had officials illegally selling arms to Iran. Remember the Iran Contra affairs? Those criminals have been pardoned by the Bush administration and put back in power), that Kuwait took the opportunity to set up slant drilling plants and steal billions of dollars worth of Iraq's oil, that Iraq complained about this on the world stage, met with American ambassador April Glaspie, who said the "US has no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait."

In my opinion, we had no business being there then, just like we have no business being there now.

That justifies war?

Saddams atrocities were terrible, yes. I, however, agree with Humanitarian Rights Watch director Kenneth Roth, who stated, ''Saddam Hussein's atrocities should certainly be punished, and his worst atrocities, such as the 1988 genocide against the Kurds, would have justified humanitarian intervention then. But such interventions should be reserved for stopping an imminent or ongoing slaughter. They shouldn't be used belatedly, to address atrocities that were ignored in the past.''

That's because Rebublican's are the devils spawn that deserve to face the wrath of the Democrats mighty, child protecting sword

Understood. Are you familiar with the "Just War" theory developed by St. Augustine but expanded by many Christian theologians? It's this:

(1) Just cause — The war must confront an unquestioned danger. "The damage inflicted by the aggressor or the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave and certain, assets the Catechism.
(2) Proper authority — The legitimate authority must declare the war and must be acting on behalf of the people.

(3) Right Intention — The reasons for declaring the war must actually be the objectives, not a masking of ulterior motives.

(4) Last resort — All reasonable peaceful alternatives must have been exhausted or have been deemed impractical or ineffective. The contentious parties must strive to resolve their differences peacefully before engaging in war, e.g. through negotiation, mediation, or even embargoes. Here too we see the importance of an international medial body, such as the United Nations.

(5) Proportionality —The good that is achieved by waging war must not be outweighed by the harm. What good is it to wage war if it leaves the country in total devastation with no one really being the winner? Modern means of warfare give great weight to this criterion.

(6) Probability of success — The achievement of the war's purpose must have a reasonable chance of success.

I believe we do not meet all of these criteria.

http://www.monksofadoration.org/justwar.html

I think Bush is an incompetent warmongerer that, through his foreign policy, has made America far less safe. The beginning, imo, has been America's unrelenting, biased support of Israel in regards to the Israel/Palestine conflict throughout the years. Unless we come up with a solution that both sides can accept, I agree with your forecast.

 

Yep, we provided a whole 1% of Iraq's arms. Funny how some people want to ignore the other 99% and blame USA.

Said Saddam, never proven though. I guess you put a lot of trust in the guy.

What's interesting is that the antiwar movement asserts that this means Iraq was tricked into invading Kuwait. You know why that's strange? Because Iraq itself was never claiming any such thing. Read an interview with Tariq Azziz here and see how ridiculous the apologist theory of the invasion of Kuwait really is: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/oral/aziz/2.html.

What we have here is a whole lot of antiwar myths which are repeated all over the web and have become articles of faith.

 

I don't know what the figures are, the data's far too conflicting. It appears though, that from 1985 until 1990 the US government approved 771 licenses for the export to Iraq of $1.5 billion worth of biological agents and high-tech equipment with military application.

I'm aware of that it's not been proven that Kuwait was slant drilling into Iraq. Unfortunately, it's not been disproven either, which should be fairly easy to find out right now. The "economic attack" allegations do hold truth to them, though. I'm not saying that it justified Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, but looking at the PNAC documents that were later drafted; those guys will do anything. It's no secret that Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Rumsfield (just to name a few) consider it of the utmost importance to have a strategic American presence in Iraq to begin destabilizing the middle east.

Have you read their letter to Bush just 9 days after 9/11? Regarding Iraq:

"...even if evidence does not link Iraq directly to the attack, any strategy aiming at the eradication of terrorism and its sponsors must include a determined effort to remove Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq."
http://www.newamericancentury.org/Bushletter.htm

Great article with Tarriz, btw.... thx for the link

 

I support a mother's right to safely, legally, and without any impediments or harrassment, hire a doctor to murder (your word, whatever), the unborn foetus which is inside her body.

To me, the atrocity is the sickening spin the pro-life camp puts on this subject, as though they are the moral ones and pro-choice people are less moral. Well, they are no less moral. You do not have a monopoly on ethics, and although you say you are, you are no better than them for them having done this. Judge not, lest ye be judged.[/QUOTE]
What is sickening is not the spin but the act of the murder. You are taking a human life, which apparently means nothing to you. A life that could of found a cure for cancer or aids, a life that could of been a loving mother or father, and you making yourself God believe you have the right to take that life. And as far as ethics, I don't believe you even know what that word means. You stated you would die before you would allow an endangered species to die. Yet something as precious as human life you would not even lift your finger to save. You support murder and in the same breath talk about ethics. Give me a break.

 

Trust me, pointbreak will provide you with the stats, he has done this at least 50 times on here, the US sold roughly 1% of Iraq's arms, but I'll let him verify that since you are the one speaking with him.

How are you supposed to disprove somthing that does not exsist???

 

I agree with you Sera Michele, America is an evil nation, and that is why we are going to be destroyed by Northern Nations. God is not going to bail us out, why should He? This country has given Him the finger everyday. God is slow to anger, but He does get angery.

 

Believe me, there are some on this post given the coice would vote for Saddam over Bush. That's how messed up some of there thinking is here.

 

Campbell, wouldn't it be a sin to wilfully live in a "evil nation"? Or are you different and special than anyone else? You sure do a lot of sins wilfully for being such a dickheaded religious zealot.

And why are you so set on Russia being the one to destroy America? Why didn't you just randomly pick some other country, like China, or Iran?

And just curious, do you think I would vote for Saddam?

 

What is sickening is not the spin but the act of the murder. You are taking a human life, which apparently means nothing to you. A life that could of found a cure for cancer or aids, a life that could of been a loving mother or father, and you making yourself God believe you have the right to take that life. And as far as ethics, I don't believe you even know what that word means. You stated you would die before you would allow an endangered species to die. Yet something as precious as human life you would not even lift your finger to save. You support murder and in the same breath talk about ethics. Give me a break.

Campbell34

I detest abortion, Campbell, you deaf Yeshua wannabe. So do all the woman who tearfully decide to go through with this very traumatic experience.
Do you even hear that, I have said it three times allready, so I doubt it.
I would kill someone, yes I would, for example, Willy Pickton. I hope someone in jail gets him, cuz he murdered over 50 women within 50 miles of my house, and becuz they were mostly First Nations, nothing was done for far too long.
I am trying to learn to forgive serial killers and childmolesters, but am not there yet. As for abortions, women will get them in back alleys with coat hangers if outlawed. You prefer this particularly cruel punishment which could be the result of her dad or uncle raping her at 12 years old.
I am totally bewildered by your ability to pass judgement on people whose realities are so much more difficult than yours, you would have died long ago.
Anyone who says they are above killing someone is either Jesus (sorry Yeshua). or a damn liar.
Which are You?

 

I agree with you Sera Michele, America is an evil nation, and that is why we are going to be destroyed by Northern Nations. God is not going to bail us out, why should He? This country has given Him the finger everyday. God is slow to anger, but He does get angery. Campbell34

angery?
I hardly think so, it is something that even we lowly mortals can master, you pompous boob. Have you seen the Dalai Lama angry?

 

Hey Ken remember do not let them get to you, smile and be happy, and believe in yourself and know that in your heart you are doing what you believe in, and you have a passionate drive, in what you are saying, and i couldn't agree with you more..Keep using your drive, it will get you far

 

I am basing the 1% figure on a Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) study, which found $44 billion in arms sales between 1973 and 1990. The study is still on their website although unfortunately the document appears corrupted at the moment. But it has been repeated all over the web. One example is here http://www.solport.com/blog/000001.html . I am not aware of any study which contradicts these figures.

I think the burden of proof is on Iraq. They invaded Kuwait on August 2 1990, coalition attacks commenced on January 17 1991. That means they had five and a half months to prove slant drilling, as UN resolutions were passed and an invasion force was assembled. If they really invaded over slant drilling, I would have expected them to produce convincing evidence during that period.

 

Thanks for the info. Do you think we should still be held accountable for providing the means to produce chemical weapon's to Iraq during a time when they were known to be using them, though?

I can conceed that too; I was being a little too fiesty and not as moderate as I usually try to be. I still don't agree with the PNAC agenda that's currently being played out, though.

Don't be ridiculous. For me, it's simply this: I cannot support our current foreign policy; it dwarfs all other issues. Our current war in Iraq and the reasons that we went there illustrates the fallacy.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackGuardXIII
What is sickening is not the spin but the act of the murder. You are taking a human life, which apparently means nothing to you. A life that could of found a cure for cancer or aids, a life that could of been a loving mother or father, and you making yourself God believe you have the right to take that life. And as far as ethics, I don't believe you even know what that word means. You stated you would die before you would allow an endangered species to die. Yet something as precious as human life you would not even lift your finger to save. You support murder and in the same breath talk about ethics. Give me a break.

Campbell34

I detest abortion, Campbell, you deaf Yeshua wannabe. So do all the woman who tearfully decide to go through with this very traumatic experience.
Do you even hear that, I have said it three times allready, so I doubt it.
I would kill someone, yes I would, for example, Willy Pickton. I hope someone in jail gets him, cuz he murdered over 50 women within 50 miles of my house, and becuz they were mostly First Nations, nothing was done for far too long.
I am trying to learn to forgive serial killers and childmolesters, but am not there yet. As for abortions, women will get them in back alleys with coat hangers if outlawed. You prefer this particularly cruel punishment which could be the result of her dad or uncle raping her at 12 years old.
I am totally bewildered by your ability to pass judgement on people whose realities are so much more difficult than yours, you would have died long ago.
Anyone who says they are above killing someone is either Jesus (sorry Yeshua). or a damn liar.
Which are You?


Hey Ken remember do not let them get to you, smile and be happy, and believe in yourself and know that in your heart you are doing what you believe in, and you have a passionate drive, in what you are saying, and i couldn't agree with you more..Keep using your drive, it will get you far

thank you, I will keep it up, esp. if it helps.
I tried to give you a rep, but it wouldnt let me, said i have to spread it around,
maybe i will give one to campbelll.........not.

 

yeah give him some rep for charming us with his damnation tactics and ironic you said something about my name in reference to the song, that's exactly why I used it, because of the song, btw, did you email me at my hotmail email the other day?

 

i may have, was it from a ken?

 

the email says kj garrett?

 

Oh now you've really done it, my name out there for all the hippies to see....

Please any of you that I have ranted at, don't come after me, I can't help it.
I just have a big mouth, and have a hard time holding back. Usually it is okay, unless I spout prematurely, and then I feel like a complete jerk, so just cuz you can see my full name, remember forgiveness is divine.



Yes that is me, mysterious BlackVelvet, and if I suddenly am no longer posting, come check if I am okay.